Tuesday, July 2, 2024
Scoop is a totally free e-newsletter, produced for the benefit of the friends who share our hobby!
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Philip M. Hecht was born in 1958, in Brooklyn, New York, back when - as
he's happy to tell you - his family still had a seven channel B&W
television and UHF was considered "exotic." He was a Brooklynite all the way,
doing all of his schooling, including college and graduate school in New York.
He first began to collect comic books in 1971. At the time he didn't know it
would lead to him having one of the top collections of Superman memorabilia ever
assembled. But it did - and he got a lot of other great material along the
way.
Scoop: What was the first comic book you remember buying and what were the circumstances (where, when, etc)?
Philip M. Hecht: I had gotten some hand me down comics and some "back-date" issues from the used book store - they really must have thought highly of them - they used a giant black marker to put either a big 3 or 5 in the upper right corner - mostly over the code authority stamp - to determine if they were 3¢ or 5¢ a piece. My brother handed me mostly Superman, Casper, etc. all from the late '60s. I bought my first "collectors book" in the Summer '71 at a local Magic & Greeting Card store. The owner's son was a little older than me and a big comics fan - his dad gave him a spare card rack in the back of the store to display and try to sell some "old" (read Silver age) DC's and Marvels. I bought an old Superman (forget the number but had a great "Imaginary tale" of him traveling to the far future -2965 - obviously it was a '65 issue) - this was quickly followed by an issue of X-Men #12 - and I have no idea what ever happened to those two books.
Scoop: How long from the time you first bought a comic book until you considered yourself a collector?
PH: Oh a few hours or so - once I was hooked that summer that was it! The sun suggested I attend the first Creation Comic Book Convention in Nov '71 - "in the city" (that means going to Manhattan from Brooklyn) to see what collecting was all about. So armed with some of my recently minted Bar Mitzvah money I took a subway ride - I was off to the New Yorker Hotel for that convention.
Scoop: What were your early favorites?
PH: At that convention I was introduced to and bought my first Golden Age comic - I had never even heard the term before - Heck I was only 13. That book was Superman #11 - for $11.00 - I still have that book! From there I fell for the early Golden Age Heroes and it was DC from there all the way - even though I had great respect for the early Fawcett's, Timelys, EC's, Famous Funnies and the rest - I bought and sold them all - even had a great run of #1's of all the Gold Key photo cover editions - for years - but I was hooked on DC.
Scoop: How did your family react to collecting? Were they supportive? Disinterested?
PH: Well within a couple of months of collecting I had bought enough comics to have stacks piled all around my bed - I had to step over most of them to get to sleep. But, they embraced and supported my early forays into collecting and dealing. I bought my first dealers table at the Jan '72 NY Star Trek Convention - at the Statler Hilton Hotel - I didn't drive at 13 so they had to help me get there with all the "stuff" for sale. I loved it - don't think I had one piece of Star Trek stuff for sale but I loved the collectors and vice versa and I've never stopped since then, Buying & Selling (although selling is now only a rare event). On Saturday's instead of baseball, I'd be going out to Shea Stadium for the afternoon flea market and coming home with all sorts of comics and collectibles.
Support from family and friends also came along with some fun - media attention. I was a young dealer, popular at the shows, and the conventions were a new phenomenon and infrequent, so it was news that Superman #1 sold for $250 - so the media descended on this stuff. Inevitably the promoter would send them around to the new young dealer - I certainly mugged for the camera and the interviews, my mom often accompanied me at those first shows and was on camera too. Before long I was on CBS, in a bunch of articles in magazines and newspapers. Within a short time even Entrepreneur magazine did a spread on me, and was profiled in Michael Korda's new book - Success. Heck I was having fun and making some money so why not! Yes the family may not have understood everything about what was obviously a passion - but they were very supportive as I began to take over more and more space with the collection and merchandise in our two bedroom Brooklyn apartment.
Scoop: Did any of your family members collect comics or other items? If so, what?
PH: No collectors, but my dad is a pack rat - bless him he turned 86 on June 1 and for that very first show he gave me some "stuff" he'd been hoarding for years - like since the war - to see if they'd sell. Between the Dick Tracy knife, the political buttons, an Orphan Annie mug, a few BLB's and some old playbills, they sold and started funding more of the collection. Heck I was only 13.
Funny though over all the years - all my collecting friends completely "get it" - some of the family still thinks I'm nuts and you should have seen the expression on some of my date's faces - when they saw a 30 foot wall with all the "stuff"
Scoop: Did you drift away from collecting at any point as some collectors do, or did you stick with it as you grew up?
PH: No I never really drifted. A low point as a young man, financially in the early '80s slowed me down a bit. However I've been a pretty consistent collector, and a dedicated Superman collector, non-stop, for what is now just shy of 35 years. Why? Because I really like it - simple. And as corny as it might sound, Superman is great, a real American icon, and he was a childhood hero of mine, so it was a natural for me. In a way it's my contribution to history, a way to reflect, all in one place, in 1000's of items, a visual on the evolution of the man in tights who "Fights for Truth, Justice and the American way."
As a collector it's also a challenge to be a dealer too, buying, selling, trading - a tug sometimes from that strong desire to add "that" piece to your collection too. Then add in the five years I ran collectors conventions in NY ('74-'79) it simply gets in your blood. My collecting grew, though, as I grew - refining tastes, focusing on condition, rarity and quality - and the Top 25 want list keeps getting refreshed - that's fun!
Scoop: How did your collecting develop over the years?
PH: It was pretty evident in less than six months that I was a Superman collector, trailing right behind was the comics. The early conventions were a treat, in hindsight - the access to the earliest, rarest and most amazing things started there. I even displayed my burgeoning (less than 1 year old) Superman collection at the first big NY comic show in summer '72. That collection and my passion for this icon all started that spring by buying a one sheet serial movie poster - Atom Man vs. Superman - Chapter One - cost me 60 bucks - I still have that poster today!
It was a different time and genre - comic and character collecting in those earlier years. I had access to great people and great things. The shops and shows were spread far apart, the auctions few and far between, no Internet, so the anticipation of the next venue fueled the desire. Had I the knowledge and values of today, accessible then, I'd be a lot richer, the space and collection a lot bigger - but not a single regret. Just to highlight a few things that turned up - Complete library runs of Whitman Books, BLB's, and file copy Fawcett's - all mint; Schuster drawings of Superman - $25; fabulous Golden Age comics - $3 eaach; complete collection of Tom Mix premiums - including prototypes; Yellow Kid and Platinum Age character toys $25-$50; Complete premiums kits (Radio, TV, Cereal, and Comic) for "peanuts." Now I willingly pay market rates - as then, though much higher, for the same things. This early exposure laid a foundation for me of bygone eras - Pre-War, Radio, NYWF, that I was not born into - but embraced. Today the quality, focus, disciplines and determination in my collecting have its roots in those early experiences.
Scoop: Compare what excited you early on to what excites you now. Is it the same thing?
PH: The thrill of the hunt is the same now as then, but the tastes and the targets are simply more refined. And I've always loved live auctions - they're more accessible now than earlier. Years ago the anticipation of the next show was tough, it could be months away, correspondence was by snail mail and phone was long distance and it was really expensive. There was the occasional auction catalog - despondent if there really wasn't anything for you and exasperated when there were many things that were. Then you had to chose your targets for you never had enough moneyh to buy it all. Now I still wait with anticipation for the auction catalogs - more come from more sources, so do the phone calls with offers. But now I think there's always merchandise. Do this for this many years and people know you, and know what you want - the phone rings - more often my mobile - with some version of "I have something you just got to have" - usually it's true.
Online, eBay is a quandary for me, a love-hate relationship. It grows and morphs and remains a fantastic source and resource - bringing to market rarities and previously unknown pieces. But it also lacks a certain elegance and the thrill of knowing the competition in the room, or on the phone, or trying to figure out who left an absentee bid - - but definitely a resource.
Scoop: You have one of the finest and most extensive Superman collections in the country. A top 5 collection - What type of Superman memorabilia do you collect?
PH: How do you say it - I simply collect everything - (if it was produced, has a logo and image, licensed or not, almost any medium.) - I collect it. Though I now focus almost exclusively on Pre '70s, with great focus on the '30s-'40s. Yet I love all the merchandising and the distinct difference in imagery and design in each of the heavy merchandising periods. There have been many throughout these last 60 years. Select years in each decade were explosive in production - much of which is very desirable. The '30s and '40s period started it all featuring the Classic simple Superman "S". The '50s featured products with the great barrel-chested imagery of Wayne Boring's design and the stove pipe suits of Clark Kent. The '60s brought the most vibrant blues and the most striking and oft used flying imagery of Superman, and an explosion of merchandise in 1966 - coinciding with the re-release of the '50s TV show, a new Broadway musical, animated cartoons etc. And then there's plenty of amazing, creative and diverse '70s stuff, much of which I originally bought off of store shelfs.
Featured in the collection are: comics, posters, toys, premiums and rings, pinbacks, art, war related campaigns, food products, advertising material, cels, clothing, games, puzzles, cards, figures - lots of figures, pencil boxes, and lots and lots of great paper and printed materials. Anything that can be merchandised - even a few merchandising and licensing catalogs are included (which themselves are pretty rare). About the only thing I don't actively include are film costumes and movie props - it's a space thing.
Scoop: What are some of your favorite Superman pieces and pieces of original art?
PH: I love it all but I think there's a few that certainly stand out. I have a Bowman-Gum Inc Shipping carton for the 1940 card series. It's completely graphic in colors, with Superman flying on all four sides and imprinted on five sides. It has the Gum Inc logos and the 1¢ price. It held 24 counter-top boxes with card packs - I'm unaware of anyone who even has one of those counter-top boxes, much less one of these cases. This was featured in the great 1990 hardcover Adventures in Superman Collecting book. It was helpful in firmly establishing the link between Bowman and Gum Inc for the collecting industry. It's one of my favorites and this is probably a unique example.
There's a great 1960 two sided Tootsie Roll Comic Rack Advertising Sign - also very rare and possibly unique. Both sides feature Superman and different late '50s Tootsie products. Other favorites - 1940 Lollipop wooden store display, a 1950's quilt, the great spin-top beanie, the silver plated Dunhill lighter, the 1947 Macy's Parade Super Baby doll, plus an extensive paper collection of Superman's support for the War effort - many attached to Superman Bread, the Jr. Defense League and the War Bond effort, The Fleischer animated Campaign book, A Gem Mint Superman Action comics patch, the rings and all the pinbacks, and two very very rare pieces of Fo-Lee Superman Gum - one still wrapped and the other wrapper opened - these are two of only a very few examples known, and are much rarer than the amazingly rare and expensive Fo-Lee Badge.
In original art I have an amazing ink and watercolor drawing of Superman punching on Storyboard. Signed by Schuster and Siegel which was a gift to an original 1940's editor of Superman and DC Comics - it's fabulous. I've got some great Boring's, Assorted Comic pages and spreads. Stretching the original art question a bit - I would mention an original key set-up animation cel from the Fleischer Superman Cartoon 1940 - of Superman and the Mad Scientist from the short of the same name - one of only 20 cels known from all the Fleischer shorts - all originating from one source and this one is for the featurette nominated for an Academy Award.
Scoop: What got you interested in your various other areas of collecting?
PH: Being a dealer mostly. It exposes you to so much more - I guess the right answer is "cross-over" collecting - the unfortunate addictive habit when you are interested in a subject, character, or product and you find yourself drifting into other collecting areas just because the image of the object of your desire appears in another media. It can be very frustrating - particularly when one of those other collecting disciplines attaches great value and desirability to the piece you want. Sometimes even making your piece the pinnacle of their field - it can get costly! I guess I was also young, open to explore other interests. I ventured into all area of pins, premiums, toys, platinum age merchandise, books, film ephemera, political and advertising - but I settled down to a select few - Superman, character pinbacks and Disney leading the pack. I was an avid attendee at assorted shows and just developed and refined tastes - the other stuff I sold - when it all got too tempting I literally gave up being a dealer - thankfully - and focused on career and collecting - obviously one feeds the other - you guess which way.
Scoop: You are also a serious comic character pinback button collector. How did you decide to collect pinback buttons?
PH: I've really been at the pinback game a long time - I found myself drawn to it ever since I became a young dealer and collector. In the quest for merchandise to sell I encountered and learned about pins, buttons, badges and premiums. In exploring to add to my Superman collection and, as a dealer, I attended all sorts of specialty shows - political, comic, sports, toy and collectible, paper and advertising and even sci-fi shows. I also combed flea markets beyond NY's borders. I'd go to these political and advertising conventions and trade, buy and sell for hours - sometimes days - before long I had trays and trays of the stuff - it was half of my merchandise supply. Once I stopped dealing I looked up and all this great stuff - mostly comic was left, along with those in my Superman collection - so I started adding Disney, RCA Nipper, and before long it became a focal point and has remained so ever since.
Scoop: What are your favorite buttons and which are you currently looking for?
PH: My favorites include the ultra rare US Jones Cadet comic book related pin; the very colorful - possibly the most beautiful - 13 piece complete Evening Ledger set (starring Mickey and Minnie, Felix, Popeye and a host of strip characters; the great 1905 Scarecrow of Oz pin - introducing the new book in Frank Baum's series - colorful and rare from the early days of a legend; another Wizard of Oz series - a 1939 Newspaper contest featuring the five major film characters - prizes awarded to winners daily - these are beautiful and elegant and come in two sizes I have all 10 - the large in English and inexplicably the small versions in Spanish; an assorted rare group of Tarzans - Vita Hearts, silent film real photo pin, Gano Downs, and an amazing and very rare LA Times trigate with Tarzan, Smitty and Skeezix; speaking of trigates the large Superman Comics Daily newspaper pin featuring a flying Superman, Tiny Tim and Nancy and Sluggo - a great newspaper pin; in fact all my Superman pins are just great. Just for fun throw in more of my favorites - Captain Battle, American Eagle Defenders (a one shot comic related pin), Sgt. Preston yellow lithographed pin, Flash Gordon (photo) Adventures Club pin, The beautiful Australian Phantom Club pin, and the very rare Washington Herald Buck Rogers and Mickey Mouse pins.
In addition I have an extensive Mickey Mouse and Disney pin collection - mostly all 1930's and 1940's - not much later than that except a few great '50s Donald's. I have an amazing complete Mickey "Officer" contest collection - featuring 8 2 ½ " cellos with a full figure of Mickey and these different "officer" roles like Sgt at Arms, Chief, and Courier, there's only one Minnie. There's the Mickey Mouse Converse Sneakers pin - a rare beauty and mine is gem mint. But oddly enough of all my Disney pins, and I have a lot of Mickey's (hard to add one nowadays) and others - virtually every rare Donald too, my favorite is a tiny 1" litho pin featuring the Fantasia film character Hop-Lo (one of the dancing Chinese Mushrooms) - it's super rare and was used exclusively for the 1948 China Relief effort - after they suffered terribly from a group of natural disasters.
Yes there are those that annoyingly still elude me - the MM Soap pin very colorful; the Tarzan Royal Bakers, and the Buck Rogers Acousticon Jr; and that darn Pinocchio RCA Victor record button - a black (black is a rare color to begin with in pins) background - in the image of a 78 rpm record - with a full figure of Pinocchio up the side. Hey, these are very very tough pins! Of course the one that drives me crazy the most - the BandW Superman Kern County Newspaper pin from California - this is literally the only Superman pin I don't have - and the only example I know of is in a collectors hands and might be a unique extant example. Got any?
Scoop: How rare are rare pinback buttons in relation to other collectibles? Do you have a specific era in which you collect?
PH: That's a great question! The tough pins, rare complete sets, and generally rare pins in VF-Gem Mint - in my opinion - can be, and are, rarer in relation to other collectibles. Specifically in relation to comic books - I think they in fact are rarer still! Think of this; the print runs were far greater than the volume of pins produced, and in general far wider in distribution, than some of the rare, regional or single event specific pins. The same can be said for rare premiums and badges too. Remember that the estimated print run of Superman #1 is in excess of 1 million copies, currently there is some speculation that there are about 100 copies known (slightly more or less) - and only 50 or so are graded (2/3 of which have been restored.) Yet some of the rare pins - like those I've highlighted above both in my collection and on my want list - are only known to be in collections in the LOW single digits - with very little turn-over - that can mean a rare pin could be out and off the market for 20 years or more until one is pried lose from a great collection! Many of these pins may number between unique to five examples known - THAT's rare in my book.
Remember too that pins don't get restored - that makes it even more interesting and rare in finer conditions - there's no speculation - provenance from spectacular collections add both cache and value in the current market. Using the ratios listed above - rare pins are much rarer in relation to certain rare books and other collectibles - their prices, though trending higher, have a lot of room to grow (as did the political pin market - which is currently the highest priced area of this collecting vertical)
In relation to toys and character collectibles - in general - here too very rare is very rare, thus the very high end in both genre's are comparable in rarity and quantity. Notice I didn't say value - value doesn't always equate to rarity, even though it's a nice side benefit. Look at Spiderman #1 - it's not really a rare book - but it retains very high value and desirability. However a Felix chasing mouse large tin litho platform toy is super rare with less than five known in the industry - it would command about $35,000 today - but still lower than a super high grade Amazing Spider-Man #1, the highest value and even rarest character pin has barely topped $15,000. So again, huge upside for pinbacks, as they are comparable in rarity, to the best of the toy/character markets.
Finally I think pin grading is on the horizon in the very near future, and will be a major market mover. The value has already come to the Political pin market, while some Sports pins are being graded (but only in two specific sizes) Both of these areas had stable prices for a long while - now in both prices and desirability are bumping up. Character pins, and political are sure to follow the path of comics, cards, coins and now some sports pins, and will be graded, while shooting higher like these others. The whole grading market is an outgrowth of the coin/currency market - when those dealers decided to expand their markets into sports cards - the industry sky rocketed once, cards too, were graded. Now comics followed cards, so the next logical step are pinbacks. Perhaps along with grading condition, we will add a scale against best grade known - creating a rarity index along with condition.
Scoop: You also have a very fine 1930's Disneyana collection. What are you favorite pieces and areas of collecting Disney, and how did you begin?
PH: My Disney and Mickey Mouse collection is mostly 1930's European pre-war porcelain and china figures; outstanding wood jointed figures and dolls, rare litho toys, a great pinback collection, and very rare '30's 3-D store displays and advertising pieces. There's also a great group of rare books and rare paper. These are the areas I find interesting and challenging. Focusing on the rare Advertising signs and displays, Pinbacks, rare American paper, mixed with all the European tin and china rarities, it's a very fine and rich mixture for me.
I started collecting Disney in an odd sort of way - again at the end of my days as a dealer I had some great things left from the inventory. I also had partnerships in some collections bought with other dealer friends - I woke up and said hey I really like this stuff. So I kept what was left, bought them out of the investments and Wham. I turned around took it all in and was faced with everything from a very rare Belgian Wooden Mickey Mouse Slot machine/trade stimulator to a gem mint 5" Mickey Steiff. Tucked away were also Deans Rag Mickey's with the original box, all of the paper, and I was off and running and haven't looked back in 15 years.
Scoop: What is you favorite Disney item in your collection? If you could only buy one Disney collectible what would it be and why?
PH: My favorites lie in the Store displays - the Kay Kamen licensed - King Cole signs and displays are among the rarest and most enjoyable elements in my collection.
I have one large Christmas themed store display sign/plaque - about 25 x 40 of Horace Horsecollar. It was designed to be used on store walls to attract the Christmas shoppers to the toy department and the Disney lines of merchandise. Some of these can be seen in both the original and repro copies of the '30s Disney Merchandise catalogs, particularly the 1937 issue. I actually have a Donald like this too, they came to market as a group of three including a Big Bad Wolf - which was sold before I got to these two. These are the only three I know of and I know a lot of collections - they are possibly unique examples - we do know that very few were made of each model anyway.
A close second as my favorite is oddly enough a Disney-Related piece - The highly lithographed Tin Litho Flip the Frog Still Bank - litho images of Flip on all sides - possibly a unique examples as none are known in the major still bank or character bank collections.
If I could only buy one Disney collectible what would it be? No contest: Back to the King Cole-Kay Kamen store displays - the Mickey Mousse Lionel Trains version of the large Xmas store display plaques. It's the same size as the Horace I have - but a beautiful orange background, with raised images of Mickey, the Mickey Trains, tracks, and all sorts of Lionel features along for the ride - It's a whole Mickey Town and Train scene all highlighted in color on 3-D paper mache. I saw one 15 or 20 years ago in a museum exhibit - this one is in the permanent collection of the NY Historical Society - on Central Park West. It was featured in a Christmas Toy and Holiday exhibit all, of course, with NY roots. It was fantastic. It's probably a unique surviving example and I don't know of any pictures of one either. A close second here if I can't get this one is the much larger Disney "TOYS" Christmas Kay Kamen sign from the former Hake-Shine offering of a number of years back.
Scoop:What are you collecting at the moment? Have you starting collecting any new areas?
PH: Here are the "collections" - Superman; 1930s European Disney and Disney Advertising; rare comic character and Disney pinbacks; Ripley's Believe it or Not; RCA Nipper; Flip the Frog. Then there's a smattering of Zeppelin and Hindenberg stuff; rare film posters; Platinum Age Comic Character Figures and Toys; assorted premium papers, then a host of misc toys and collectibles that I just like. Concentrating of course on the Superman first, then the Character Pins and and the Disney run as very close seconds.
New areas of collecting - pick a show, pick an auction catalog and I can find another collection - so self-restraint is important. I actually snuck one in without actually realizing - rare wines. Heck this collecting stuff is like an addiction. If you look in the wine cooler you'll find things like a '61 Lynch Bagues; "70,'75,'82 Moutons, a bottle of the best port in the last Century ('63 Burmeister) and a rare group of vintage rose champagnes. I really don't collect the stuff - but I've seemed to "assemble" a very respectable discreet group. On more than one occasion my girlfriend would ask "can I open a bottle" - sure just pick it - then came my next line "well could we save that one for a special occasion, that one too and that one too..." There is a drinking stash also and eventually these will all be cracked too.
More apropos in collectibles rare Teddy Bears are sneaking in, and in the last year I've gotten into Rare and Early Santa Pinbacks - in a big way. A few years back I wanted to start collecting Early Native American Photographs - but by the time I started looking the market was red hot and prices through the roof.
Scoop: Do you have any stories about the one that got away?
PH: Who doesn't - Is it the one when a fabulous celluloid 1940 Superman Bread wrapper mounted flat was snatched from under me; or was it the time when an Amazing Fantasy #15 was bought by a kid in front of me for $1 'cause it was sitting on top of a stack of used and otherwise worthless comics at a big Antique show in NY; or that time in Dallas at a collectors show when a dealer had a tray on buttons and pins - all common and priced accordingly - except that smack in the middle was the rare Dick Tracy- Orphan Annie Genungs Dept Store Jugate pin (very rare particularly at the time) and bought by the guy who picked up the tray right in front of me - for $75 - that one over time annoyed me almost the most it cost me $1300 years later for my gem mint example of the same pin; or was it that time in '75 when I was dealing and displaying at the DC Comics Convention - moved to another hotel due to a last minute strike - so they re-arranged the dealers room and a guy walks in and turns to where my table would have been w/ a trunk - a black steamer trunk - filled with a complete run of 1960's Marvels - all major titles - of course the table he stopped in front of, where mine was supposed to be, was my good friend Steve Geppi - guess who bought it.
Seriously though - truly few regrets - there have been plenty of great pieces at auctions or shows when the time wasn't right - the financial resources different and I couldn't "pay the freight" - But I certainly have been in the right place at the right time plenty of times.
Scoop: Do you have any specific comics or collectibles that you have sold that you wish you had kept?
PH: There are many things over the years - particularly as a dealer that in hindsight I wish I kept - across all my collecting verticals - but most of what I sold I did well on, for the time, so again few regrets. Those sales afforded me a chance to invest and re-invest those funds into more inventory, thus driving more funds for my collection.
But there is one story that goes well with this question. Years ago I bought the large version of the Snow White Scirocco Wood Radio for $50 at a flea market - near perfect shape. Had it for a while, about 5 years later I was doing one of my last shows as a dealer and decided to take it with me - I rationalized that if I got a "good" price I'd sell it. Sure enough the show was a dud, when that happens you usually try to make up the costs by pushing things out. Someone of course wants the radio and starts haggling - and is resisting it at a ridiculously low price of $275 - well he takes it. Helped the day, hurt my wallet, years later it cost me almost $3,000 to replace it with the one I have now.
Scoop: In you opinion what do you find the most rewarding about collecting in general?
PH: When I was growing up a TV program ABC's Wild World of Sports had a tag line - "The thrill of victory and the agony of defeat" - you can still hear Jim McCay saying those words. He about sums it up for me. In fact it's all of the following: the thrill of the hunt, target setting (want lists) which are always updated, discovering previously unknown items, and that heady balance between success and buyers remorse (in case you spent the rent money but knowing just like your girlfriend's 50th pair of black shoes - that you just HAD to have it.) Actually finding something that you've been searching for for years or that is very rare, something that makes you feel satisfied, or set's your collection apart as marquis, can all be very rewarding. For me, the stories, the history, the collecting friends, becoming the repository of information (some call that becoming an expert) and, swapping details - like you were debating the finer points of Mantle's swing - and of course comparing prices. These are all part of the rewards one finds along with the "stuff"
The unending details around the item, condition, circumstances of its acquisition as we discover and go deeper on the subject of our affections - be it Superman, FDR or Krazy Kat - is what, I think, compels and feeds the collector. Processing and passing on the history of our popular culture, for posterity, is important. Heck we are all just temporary caretakers of the stuff anyway.
Scoop: What advice do you have for people interested in collecting comics and or character collectibles?
PH: First and foremost: Enjoy. Be honest with your intentions, find something or multiple things that you can love. Go deep, be committed, find out everything there is know about that comic or character, that series, or that TV show. Find out where else they appeared, the tie-in merchandising, start cross collecting into other venues (film, toys, books, posters, and all memorabilia on the same subject or character.) It's good for you as a collector, it's good for other collectors (it stimulates activity and drives collectibles into the market), and it's good for the industry. But be practical. Don't set up an impossible mission - like the highest graded copy of every #1 issue of all the Golden Age superhero titles - Can't do it, Can't afford it - whoever you are! Don't allow excuses which would let you give up - it's OK to slow down and reset your personal, professional and collecting priorities - but don't give up. Find and focus on something accessible - that you can afford either in quantity or rarity (great if you can do both) - then set stretch objectives - want list items that you can save for. Buy quality - it always pays. You will enjoy it and boast about it and it's a path to refined interests.
Another piece of specific advice I would offer is Think about the Future! If the title or character is being lost to the ages, ebbing from the collective conscience, and the base of collectors is thinning vs. expanding - watch your investments. The basis for resell or refining your collection could be severely restricted. Fewer dealers may stock and carry it if their opportunities for sale face a declining group of collectors, prices stagnate, and the collectors group could be less active with fewer items and stories swapped Thus your ability to retrieve your investment for future collecting activity could be impaired. If you asked whether or not new collectors are being added to the ranks for the Katzenjammer Kids or Kid Eternity - probably not - it's great stuff - just think about it!
Lastly, reverse engineer your decisions - thus never, never, never collect for the money. If that's your motivation it's called investing not collecting. So if you want to collect, love it, love the stuff, buy it - yes it's OK to spend a lot, have great and valuable assets which you may in the future liquidate, but it's a collection first and always.
Scoop: Looking ahead 5 to 10 years what are the biggest challenges that the collecting community faces? What are the greatest opportunities?
PH: The greatest challenge is two-fold: a lack of honesty and second a lack of cohesion (potential for a diluted community if everything is moved to an on-line industry) Technology has improved, like it or not (and I'm in the networking industry) but it can drive unscrupulous individuals who are looking for the quick buck. Whether selling quality repros or restored and repaired items on line leaving out those important details, or misrepresenting origins and rarity, or simply not delivering what was bought - it has the potential to sour collectors from staying in the game. Or it could switch them to newer "collectibles" vs vintage. That's why I say communicate! Find dealers, collectors, and sources you can work with and latch on, stick with them, it's a win-win scenario.
Remember if it feels fishy, smells fishy, it probably is fishy. Amazingly you will know and you will learn. We all make mistakes - don't stress.
Second, the diluted community if everything is moved on line. Collecting is as much art as science but most of all it's an interpersonal sport. People have to get together, see it, compare it, swap it, touch it, talk about it - in person. The thrill of the in person live auction is un-comparable - it has an addictive quality and you can often understand your competition in ways pure on line trading can not provide. On line is an amazing source, an amazing augmentation of the market - not its replacement - so we must keep and invest in shows, shops, auctions, newsletters like Scoop, collectors clubs etc. facilitating the people in the community. Dealers and suppliers can then target acquisitions for individuals if they know you and know your interests, whether you buy plenty on line or not - personal relationships help you source and educate in ways not possible if everything was shifted to an on line industry.
Oddly enough, the greatest opportunity in the next 5-10 years is the flip side of the second challenge I just outlined - the online industry. The advent of the E-bay culture and on-line catalogs and on-line auctions is an amazing opportunity to bring more material to more current, new, and curious collectors than ever before. It can expand the base of collectors, adding new members to the community, replenish those who drop off thus creating new interest across many collecting segments, and injecting new energy. Also this opportunity brings items and objects and new inventory to the market rarely or ever seen before. It sustains the market and provides a virtual real-time market sensing function never before available. It stimulates: interest and prices; action; debate; and most of all insures a future.
Scoop: You have participated in virtually every aspect of the collecting industry: collector, dealer, shop-owner, show promoter, author, auction consultant and professional reference - Can you explain that history -any preference, does it demonstrate your commitment to the market?
PH: Great question, Sinatra said it best - "A puppet, a poet, a pauper, a painter...." Yes I have touched all those aspects of the marketplace - rather substantially - but I would say today first and foremost I am a collector - I've been at it a long time. Sure I was a dealer I started that within my first year as a collector - 1972; a show promoter as early as 1974; a shop owner starting in 1976 (before there was a store and dealer in every town or strip mall in the country); Co-authored collectible and sports collectibles books with my old friend and famous boxing expert Bert Sugar; the Antique Toy Consultant for Christies in the mid '90s; and have been referenced as a source and tapped for opinions and information in many articles, publications and appraisals. Parts of my collections have been displayed from museums to department stores, and I've been featured in a number of TV collecting shows as well a featured in brand new Superman Documentary - "Look Up In The Sky" released at the same time as the new film and done by the same director - Bryan Singer.
Yeah, it's in the blood, I'm committed, it ain't just a hobby anymore - I'm still learning all the time and still get as excited as I did in the "early days."
Scoop: Given your occupation (as a communications company executive) and your credentials, what advice would you give to people who are looking to start collecting.
PH: EXPLORE! Not everything that might be of interest to you, or that you could come to love and collect, may be known to you at this time. Do your best to find one or more things you do know about, and one or more you don't - and discover what really interests you. Then fasten your seat belts, it's a bumpy ride that can go very fast.
I've been at this game a while, do you think that when I started at 13 years old that I really knew what a Zeppelin was, or who Maxfield Parrish was; or that Superman tackled the Axis powers during the War and helped raise funds for War Bonds, that Mickey Mouse had a Horse and a Cow - both with names; that Thor was an Asgard hero on Earth, or that pinback buttons have featured virtually every character of the last 100 years? No - but today items related to all these subjects are among my most fun and prized elements in my collection. They got there because I explored and I did my research. The same can be said for the new collector be it Star Wars, Superman, Mego figures, Big Little Books, or strip art - explore..
It's always a journey, I'm still learning, I still have to do my homework. If I tell you how many books and catalogs I have in my library you'd be amazed.. Find it, explore it, research it, love it and remember never ever do it for the money.
Scoop: What was the first comic book you remember buying and what were the circumstances (where, when, etc)?
Philip M. Hecht: I had gotten some hand me down comics and some "back-date" issues from the used book store - they really must have thought highly of them - they used a giant black marker to put either a big 3 or 5 in the upper right corner - mostly over the code authority stamp - to determine if they were 3¢ or 5¢ a piece. My brother handed me mostly Superman, Casper, etc. all from the late '60s. I bought my first "collectors book" in the Summer '71 at a local Magic & Greeting Card store. The owner's son was a little older than me and a big comics fan - his dad gave him a spare card rack in the back of the store to display and try to sell some "old" (read Silver age) DC's and Marvels. I bought an old Superman (forget the number but had a great "Imaginary tale" of him traveling to the far future -2965 - obviously it was a '65 issue) - this was quickly followed by an issue of X-Men #12 - and I have no idea what ever happened to those two books.
Scoop: How long from the time you first bought a comic book until you considered yourself a collector?
PH: Oh a few hours or so - once I was hooked that summer that was it! The sun suggested I attend the first Creation Comic Book Convention in Nov '71 - "in the city" (that means going to Manhattan from Brooklyn) to see what collecting was all about. So armed with some of my recently minted Bar Mitzvah money I took a subway ride - I was off to the New Yorker Hotel for that convention.
Scoop: What were your early favorites?
PH: At that convention I was introduced to and bought my first Golden Age comic - I had never even heard the term before - Heck I was only 13. That book was Superman #11 - for $11.00 - I still have that book! From there I fell for the early Golden Age Heroes and it was DC from there all the way - even though I had great respect for the early Fawcett's, Timelys, EC's, Famous Funnies and the rest - I bought and sold them all - even had a great run of #1's of all the Gold Key photo cover editions - for years - but I was hooked on DC.
Scoop: How did your family react to collecting? Were they supportive? Disinterested?
PH: Well within a couple of months of collecting I had bought enough comics to have stacks piled all around my bed - I had to step over most of them to get to sleep. But, they embraced and supported my early forays into collecting and dealing. I bought my first dealers table at the Jan '72 NY Star Trek Convention - at the Statler Hilton Hotel - I didn't drive at 13 so they had to help me get there with all the "stuff" for sale. I loved it - don't think I had one piece of Star Trek stuff for sale but I loved the collectors and vice versa and I've never stopped since then, Buying & Selling (although selling is now only a rare event). On Saturday's instead of baseball, I'd be going out to Shea Stadium for the afternoon flea market and coming home with all sorts of comics and collectibles.
Support from family and friends also came along with some fun - media attention. I was a young dealer, popular at the shows, and the conventions were a new phenomenon and infrequent, so it was news that Superman #1 sold for $250 - so the media descended on this stuff. Inevitably the promoter would send them around to the new young dealer - I certainly mugged for the camera and the interviews, my mom often accompanied me at those first shows and was on camera too. Before long I was on CBS, in a bunch of articles in magazines and newspapers. Within a short time even Entrepreneur magazine did a spread on me, and was profiled in Michael Korda's new book - Success. Heck I was having fun and making some money so why not! Yes the family may not have understood everything about what was obviously a passion - but they were very supportive as I began to take over more and more space with the collection and merchandise in our two bedroom Brooklyn apartment.
Scoop: Did any of your family members collect comics or other items? If so, what?
PH: No collectors, but my dad is a pack rat - bless him he turned 86 on June 1 and for that very first show he gave me some "stuff" he'd been hoarding for years - like since the war - to see if they'd sell. Between the Dick Tracy knife, the political buttons, an Orphan Annie mug, a few BLB's and some old playbills, they sold and started funding more of the collection. Heck I was only 13.
Funny though over all the years - all my collecting friends completely "get it" - some of the family still thinks I'm nuts and you should have seen the expression on some of my date's faces - when they saw a 30 foot wall with all the "stuff"
Scoop: Did you drift away from collecting at any point as some collectors do, or did you stick with it as you grew up?
PH: No I never really drifted. A low point as a young man, financially in the early '80s slowed me down a bit. However I've been a pretty consistent collector, and a dedicated Superman collector, non-stop, for what is now just shy of 35 years. Why? Because I really like it - simple. And as corny as it might sound, Superman is great, a real American icon, and he was a childhood hero of mine, so it was a natural for me. In a way it's my contribution to history, a way to reflect, all in one place, in 1000's of items, a visual on the evolution of the man in tights who "Fights for Truth, Justice and the American way."
As a collector it's also a challenge to be a dealer too, buying, selling, trading - a tug sometimes from that strong desire to add "that" piece to your collection too. Then add in the five years I ran collectors conventions in NY ('74-'79) it simply gets in your blood. My collecting grew, though, as I grew - refining tastes, focusing on condition, rarity and quality - and the Top 25 want list keeps getting refreshed - that's fun!
Scoop: How did your collecting develop over the years?
PH: It was pretty evident in less than six months that I was a Superman collector, trailing right behind was the comics. The early conventions were a treat, in hindsight - the access to the earliest, rarest and most amazing things started there. I even displayed my burgeoning (less than 1 year old) Superman collection at the first big NY comic show in summer '72. That collection and my passion for this icon all started that spring by buying a one sheet serial movie poster - Atom Man vs. Superman - Chapter One - cost me 60 bucks - I still have that poster today!
It was a different time and genre - comic and character collecting in those earlier years. I had access to great people and great things. The shops and shows were spread far apart, the auctions few and far between, no Internet, so the anticipation of the next venue fueled the desire. Had I the knowledge and values of today, accessible then, I'd be a lot richer, the space and collection a lot bigger - but not a single regret. Just to highlight a few things that turned up - Complete library runs of Whitman Books, BLB's, and file copy Fawcett's - all mint; Schuster drawings of Superman - $25; fabulous Golden Age comics - $3 eaach; complete collection of Tom Mix premiums - including prototypes; Yellow Kid and Platinum Age character toys $25-$50; Complete premiums kits (Radio, TV, Cereal, and Comic) for "peanuts." Now I willingly pay market rates - as then, though much higher, for the same things. This early exposure laid a foundation for me of bygone eras - Pre-War, Radio, NYWF, that I was not born into - but embraced. Today the quality, focus, disciplines and determination in my collecting have its roots in those early experiences.
Scoop: Compare what excited you early on to what excites you now. Is it the same thing?
PH: The thrill of the hunt is the same now as then, but the tastes and the targets are simply more refined. And I've always loved live auctions - they're more accessible now than earlier. Years ago the anticipation of the next show was tough, it could be months away, correspondence was by snail mail and phone was long distance and it was really expensive. There was the occasional auction catalog - despondent if there really wasn't anything for you and exasperated when there were many things that were. Then you had to chose your targets for you never had enough moneyh to buy it all. Now I still wait with anticipation for the auction catalogs - more come from more sources, so do the phone calls with offers. But now I think there's always merchandise. Do this for this many years and people know you, and know what you want - the phone rings - more often my mobile - with some version of "I have something you just got to have" - usually it's true.
Online, eBay is a quandary for me, a love-hate relationship. It grows and morphs and remains a fantastic source and resource - bringing to market rarities and previously unknown pieces. But it also lacks a certain elegance and the thrill of knowing the competition in the room, or on the phone, or trying to figure out who left an absentee bid - - but definitely a resource.
Scoop: You have one of the finest and most extensive Superman collections in the country. A top 5 collection - What type of Superman memorabilia do you collect?
PH: How do you say it - I simply collect everything - (if it was produced, has a logo and image, licensed or not, almost any medium.) - I collect it. Though I now focus almost exclusively on Pre '70s, with great focus on the '30s-'40s. Yet I love all the merchandising and the distinct difference in imagery and design in each of the heavy merchandising periods. There have been many throughout these last 60 years. Select years in each decade were explosive in production - much of which is very desirable. The '30s and '40s period started it all featuring the Classic simple Superman "S". The '50s featured products with the great barrel-chested imagery of Wayne Boring's design and the stove pipe suits of Clark Kent. The '60s brought the most vibrant blues and the most striking and oft used flying imagery of Superman, and an explosion of merchandise in 1966 - coinciding with the re-release of the '50s TV show, a new Broadway musical, animated cartoons etc. And then there's plenty of amazing, creative and diverse '70s stuff, much of which I originally bought off of store shelfs.
Featured in the collection are: comics, posters, toys, premiums and rings, pinbacks, art, war related campaigns, food products, advertising material, cels, clothing, games, puzzles, cards, figures - lots of figures, pencil boxes, and lots and lots of great paper and printed materials. Anything that can be merchandised - even a few merchandising and licensing catalogs are included (which themselves are pretty rare). About the only thing I don't actively include are film costumes and movie props - it's a space thing.
Scoop: What are some of your favorite Superman pieces and pieces of original art?
PH: I love it all but I think there's a few that certainly stand out. I have a Bowman-Gum Inc Shipping carton for the 1940 card series. It's completely graphic in colors, with Superman flying on all four sides and imprinted on five sides. It has the Gum Inc logos and the 1¢ price. It held 24 counter-top boxes with card packs - I'm unaware of anyone who even has one of those counter-top boxes, much less one of these cases. This was featured in the great 1990 hardcover Adventures in Superman Collecting book. It was helpful in firmly establishing the link between Bowman and Gum Inc for the collecting industry. It's one of my favorites and this is probably a unique example.
There's a great 1960 two sided Tootsie Roll Comic Rack Advertising Sign - also very rare and possibly unique. Both sides feature Superman and different late '50s Tootsie products. Other favorites - 1940 Lollipop wooden store display, a 1950's quilt, the great spin-top beanie, the silver plated Dunhill lighter, the 1947 Macy's Parade Super Baby doll, plus an extensive paper collection of Superman's support for the War effort - many attached to Superman Bread, the Jr. Defense League and the War Bond effort, The Fleischer animated Campaign book, A Gem Mint Superman Action comics patch, the rings and all the pinbacks, and two very very rare pieces of Fo-Lee Superman Gum - one still wrapped and the other wrapper opened - these are two of only a very few examples known, and are much rarer than the amazingly rare and expensive Fo-Lee Badge.
In original art I have an amazing ink and watercolor drawing of Superman punching on Storyboard. Signed by Schuster and Siegel which was a gift to an original 1940's editor of Superman and DC Comics - it's fabulous. I've got some great Boring's, Assorted Comic pages and spreads. Stretching the original art question a bit - I would mention an original key set-up animation cel from the Fleischer Superman Cartoon 1940 - of Superman and the Mad Scientist from the short of the same name - one of only 20 cels known from all the Fleischer shorts - all originating from one source and this one is for the featurette nominated for an Academy Award.
Scoop: What got you interested in your various other areas of collecting?
PH: Being a dealer mostly. It exposes you to so much more - I guess the right answer is "cross-over" collecting - the unfortunate addictive habit when you are interested in a subject, character, or product and you find yourself drifting into other collecting areas just because the image of the object of your desire appears in another media. It can be very frustrating - particularly when one of those other collecting disciplines attaches great value and desirability to the piece you want. Sometimes even making your piece the pinnacle of their field - it can get costly! I guess I was also young, open to explore other interests. I ventured into all area of pins, premiums, toys, platinum age merchandise, books, film ephemera, political and advertising - but I settled down to a select few - Superman, character pinbacks and Disney leading the pack. I was an avid attendee at assorted shows and just developed and refined tastes - the other stuff I sold - when it all got too tempting I literally gave up being a dealer - thankfully - and focused on career and collecting - obviously one feeds the other - you guess which way.
Scoop: You are also a serious comic character pinback button collector. How did you decide to collect pinback buttons?
PH: I've really been at the pinback game a long time - I found myself drawn to it ever since I became a young dealer and collector. In the quest for merchandise to sell I encountered and learned about pins, buttons, badges and premiums. In exploring to add to my Superman collection and, as a dealer, I attended all sorts of specialty shows - political, comic, sports, toy and collectible, paper and advertising and even sci-fi shows. I also combed flea markets beyond NY's borders. I'd go to these political and advertising conventions and trade, buy and sell for hours - sometimes days - before long I had trays and trays of the stuff - it was half of my merchandise supply. Once I stopped dealing I looked up and all this great stuff - mostly comic was left, along with those in my Superman collection - so I started adding Disney, RCA Nipper, and before long it became a focal point and has remained so ever since.
Scoop: What are your favorite buttons and which are you currently looking for?
PH: My favorites include the ultra rare US Jones Cadet comic book related pin; the very colorful - possibly the most beautiful - 13 piece complete Evening Ledger set (starring Mickey and Minnie, Felix, Popeye and a host of strip characters; the great 1905 Scarecrow of Oz pin - introducing the new book in Frank Baum's series - colorful and rare from the early days of a legend; another Wizard of Oz series - a 1939 Newspaper contest featuring the five major film characters - prizes awarded to winners daily - these are beautiful and elegant and come in two sizes I have all 10 - the large in English and inexplicably the small versions in Spanish; an assorted rare group of Tarzans - Vita Hearts, silent film real photo pin, Gano Downs, and an amazing and very rare LA Times trigate with Tarzan, Smitty and Skeezix; speaking of trigates the large Superman Comics Daily newspaper pin featuring a flying Superman, Tiny Tim and Nancy and Sluggo - a great newspaper pin; in fact all my Superman pins are just great. Just for fun throw in more of my favorites - Captain Battle, American Eagle Defenders (a one shot comic related pin), Sgt. Preston yellow lithographed pin, Flash Gordon (photo) Adventures Club pin, The beautiful Australian Phantom Club pin, and the very rare Washington Herald Buck Rogers and Mickey Mouse pins.
In addition I have an extensive Mickey Mouse and Disney pin collection - mostly all 1930's and 1940's - not much later than that except a few great '50s Donald's. I have an amazing complete Mickey "Officer" contest collection - featuring 8 2 ½ " cellos with a full figure of Mickey and these different "officer" roles like Sgt at Arms, Chief, and Courier, there's only one Minnie. There's the Mickey Mouse Converse Sneakers pin - a rare beauty and mine is gem mint. But oddly enough of all my Disney pins, and I have a lot of Mickey's (hard to add one nowadays) and others - virtually every rare Donald too, my favorite is a tiny 1" litho pin featuring the Fantasia film character Hop-Lo (one of the dancing Chinese Mushrooms) - it's super rare and was used exclusively for the 1948 China Relief effort - after they suffered terribly from a group of natural disasters.
Yes there are those that annoyingly still elude me - the MM Soap pin very colorful; the Tarzan Royal Bakers, and the Buck Rogers Acousticon Jr; and that darn Pinocchio RCA Victor record button - a black (black is a rare color to begin with in pins) background - in the image of a 78 rpm record - with a full figure of Pinocchio up the side. Hey, these are very very tough pins! Of course the one that drives me crazy the most - the BandW Superman Kern County Newspaper pin from California - this is literally the only Superman pin I don't have - and the only example I know of is in a collectors hands and might be a unique extant example. Got any?
Scoop: How rare are rare pinback buttons in relation to other collectibles? Do you have a specific era in which you collect?
PH: That's a great question! The tough pins, rare complete sets, and generally rare pins in VF-Gem Mint - in my opinion - can be, and are, rarer in relation to other collectibles. Specifically in relation to comic books - I think they in fact are rarer still! Think of this; the print runs were far greater than the volume of pins produced, and in general far wider in distribution, than some of the rare, regional or single event specific pins. The same can be said for rare premiums and badges too. Remember that the estimated print run of Superman #1 is in excess of 1 million copies, currently there is some speculation that there are about 100 copies known (slightly more or less) - and only 50 or so are graded (2/3 of which have been restored.) Yet some of the rare pins - like those I've highlighted above both in my collection and on my want list - are only known to be in collections in the LOW single digits - with very little turn-over - that can mean a rare pin could be out and off the market for 20 years or more until one is pried lose from a great collection! Many of these pins may number between unique to five examples known - THAT's rare in my book.
Remember too that pins don't get restored - that makes it even more interesting and rare in finer conditions - there's no speculation - provenance from spectacular collections add both cache and value in the current market. Using the ratios listed above - rare pins are much rarer in relation to certain rare books and other collectibles - their prices, though trending higher, have a lot of room to grow (as did the political pin market - which is currently the highest priced area of this collecting vertical)
In relation to toys and character collectibles - in general - here too very rare is very rare, thus the very high end in both genre's are comparable in rarity and quantity. Notice I didn't say value - value doesn't always equate to rarity, even though it's a nice side benefit. Look at Spiderman #1 - it's not really a rare book - but it retains very high value and desirability. However a Felix chasing mouse large tin litho platform toy is super rare with less than five known in the industry - it would command about $35,000 today - but still lower than a super high grade Amazing Spider-Man #1, the highest value and even rarest character pin has barely topped $15,000. So again, huge upside for pinbacks, as they are comparable in rarity, to the best of the toy/character markets.
Finally I think pin grading is on the horizon in the very near future, and will be a major market mover. The value has already come to the Political pin market, while some Sports pins are being graded (but only in two specific sizes) Both of these areas had stable prices for a long while - now in both prices and desirability are bumping up. Character pins, and political are sure to follow the path of comics, cards, coins and now some sports pins, and will be graded, while shooting higher like these others. The whole grading market is an outgrowth of the coin/currency market - when those dealers decided to expand their markets into sports cards - the industry sky rocketed once, cards too, were graded. Now comics followed cards, so the next logical step are pinbacks. Perhaps along with grading condition, we will add a scale against best grade known - creating a rarity index along with condition.
Scoop: You also have a very fine 1930's Disneyana collection. What are you favorite pieces and areas of collecting Disney, and how did you begin?
PH: My Disney and Mickey Mouse collection is mostly 1930's European pre-war porcelain and china figures; outstanding wood jointed figures and dolls, rare litho toys, a great pinback collection, and very rare '30's 3-D store displays and advertising pieces. There's also a great group of rare books and rare paper. These are the areas I find interesting and challenging. Focusing on the rare Advertising signs and displays, Pinbacks, rare American paper, mixed with all the European tin and china rarities, it's a very fine and rich mixture for me.
I started collecting Disney in an odd sort of way - again at the end of my days as a dealer I had some great things left from the inventory. I also had partnerships in some collections bought with other dealer friends - I woke up and said hey I really like this stuff. So I kept what was left, bought them out of the investments and Wham. I turned around took it all in and was faced with everything from a very rare Belgian Wooden Mickey Mouse Slot machine/trade stimulator to a gem mint 5" Mickey Steiff. Tucked away were also Deans Rag Mickey's with the original box, all of the paper, and I was off and running and haven't looked back in 15 years.
Scoop: What is you favorite Disney item in your collection? If you could only buy one Disney collectible what would it be and why?
PH: My favorites lie in the Store displays - the Kay Kamen licensed - King Cole signs and displays are among the rarest and most enjoyable elements in my collection.
I have one large Christmas themed store display sign/plaque - about 25 x 40 of Horace Horsecollar. It was designed to be used on store walls to attract the Christmas shoppers to the toy department and the Disney lines of merchandise. Some of these can be seen in both the original and repro copies of the '30s Disney Merchandise catalogs, particularly the 1937 issue. I actually have a Donald like this too, they came to market as a group of three including a Big Bad Wolf - which was sold before I got to these two. These are the only three I know of and I know a lot of collections - they are possibly unique examples - we do know that very few were made of each model anyway.
A close second as my favorite is oddly enough a Disney-Related piece - The highly lithographed Tin Litho Flip the Frog Still Bank - litho images of Flip on all sides - possibly a unique examples as none are known in the major still bank or character bank collections.
If I could only buy one Disney collectible what would it be? No contest: Back to the King Cole-Kay Kamen store displays - the Mickey Mousse Lionel Trains version of the large Xmas store display plaques. It's the same size as the Horace I have - but a beautiful orange background, with raised images of Mickey, the Mickey Trains, tracks, and all sorts of Lionel features along for the ride - It's a whole Mickey Town and Train scene all highlighted in color on 3-D paper mache. I saw one 15 or 20 years ago in a museum exhibit - this one is in the permanent collection of the NY Historical Society - on Central Park West. It was featured in a Christmas Toy and Holiday exhibit all, of course, with NY roots. It was fantastic. It's probably a unique surviving example and I don't know of any pictures of one either. A close second here if I can't get this one is the much larger Disney "TOYS" Christmas Kay Kamen sign from the former Hake-Shine offering of a number of years back.
Scoop:What are you collecting at the moment? Have you starting collecting any new areas?
PH: Here are the "collections" - Superman; 1930s European Disney and Disney Advertising; rare comic character and Disney pinbacks; Ripley's Believe it or Not; RCA Nipper; Flip the Frog. Then there's a smattering of Zeppelin and Hindenberg stuff; rare film posters; Platinum Age Comic Character Figures and Toys; assorted premium papers, then a host of misc toys and collectibles that I just like. Concentrating of course on the Superman first, then the Character Pins and and the Disney run as very close seconds.
New areas of collecting - pick a show, pick an auction catalog and I can find another collection - so self-restraint is important. I actually snuck one in without actually realizing - rare wines. Heck this collecting stuff is like an addiction. If you look in the wine cooler you'll find things like a '61 Lynch Bagues; "70,'75,'82 Moutons, a bottle of the best port in the last Century ('63 Burmeister) and a rare group of vintage rose champagnes. I really don't collect the stuff - but I've seemed to "assemble" a very respectable discreet group. On more than one occasion my girlfriend would ask "can I open a bottle" - sure just pick it - then came my next line "well could we save that one for a special occasion, that one too and that one too..." There is a drinking stash also and eventually these will all be cracked too.
More apropos in collectibles rare Teddy Bears are sneaking in, and in the last year I've gotten into Rare and Early Santa Pinbacks - in a big way. A few years back I wanted to start collecting Early Native American Photographs - but by the time I started looking the market was red hot and prices through the roof.
Scoop: Do you have any stories about the one that got away?
PH: Who doesn't - Is it the one when a fabulous celluloid 1940 Superman Bread wrapper mounted flat was snatched from under me; or was it the time when an Amazing Fantasy #15 was bought by a kid in front of me for $1 'cause it was sitting on top of a stack of used and otherwise worthless comics at a big Antique show in NY; or that time in Dallas at a collectors show when a dealer had a tray on buttons and pins - all common and priced accordingly - except that smack in the middle was the rare Dick Tracy- Orphan Annie Genungs Dept Store Jugate pin (very rare particularly at the time) and bought by the guy who picked up the tray right in front of me - for $75 - that one over time annoyed me almost the most it cost me $1300 years later for my gem mint example of the same pin; or was it that time in '75 when I was dealing and displaying at the DC Comics Convention - moved to another hotel due to a last minute strike - so they re-arranged the dealers room and a guy walks in and turns to where my table would have been w/ a trunk - a black steamer trunk - filled with a complete run of 1960's Marvels - all major titles - of course the table he stopped in front of, where mine was supposed to be, was my good friend Steve Geppi - guess who bought it.
Seriously though - truly few regrets - there have been plenty of great pieces at auctions or shows when the time wasn't right - the financial resources different and I couldn't "pay the freight" - But I certainly have been in the right place at the right time plenty of times.
Scoop: Do you have any specific comics or collectibles that you have sold that you wish you had kept?
PH: There are many things over the years - particularly as a dealer that in hindsight I wish I kept - across all my collecting verticals - but most of what I sold I did well on, for the time, so again few regrets. Those sales afforded me a chance to invest and re-invest those funds into more inventory, thus driving more funds for my collection.
But there is one story that goes well with this question. Years ago I bought the large version of the Snow White Scirocco Wood Radio for $50 at a flea market - near perfect shape. Had it for a while, about 5 years later I was doing one of my last shows as a dealer and decided to take it with me - I rationalized that if I got a "good" price I'd sell it. Sure enough the show was a dud, when that happens you usually try to make up the costs by pushing things out. Someone of course wants the radio and starts haggling - and is resisting it at a ridiculously low price of $275 - well he takes it. Helped the day, hurt my wallet, years later it cost me almost $3,000 to replace it with the one I have now.
Scoop: In you opinion what do you find the most rewarding about collecting in general?
PH: When I was growing up a TV program ABC's Wild World of Sports had a tag line - "The thrill of victory and the agony of defeat" - you can still hear Jim McCay saying those words. He about sums it up for me. In fact it's all of the following: the thrill of the hunt, target setting (want lists) which are always updated, discovering previously unknown items, and that heady balance between success and buyers remorse (in case you spent the rent money but knowing just like your girlfriend's 50th pair of black shoes - that you just HAD to have it.) Actually finding something that you've been searching for for years or that is very rare, something that makes you feel satisfied, or set's your collection apart as marquis, can all be very rewarding. For me, the stories, the history, the collecting friends, becoming the repository of information (some call that becoming an expert) and, swapping details - like you were debating the finer points of Mantle's swing - and of course comparing prices. These are all part of the rewards one finds along with the "stuff"
The unending details around the item, condition, circumstances of its acquisition as we discover and go deeper on the subject of our affections - be it Superman, FDR or Krazy Kat - is what, I think, compels and feeds the collector. Processing and passing on the history of our popular culture, for posterity, is important. Heck we are all just temporary caretakers of the stuff anyway.
Scoop: What advice do you have for people interested in collecting comics and or character collectibles?
PH: First and foremost: Enjoy. Be honest with your intentions, find something or multiple things that you can love. Go deep, be committed, find out everything there is know about that comic or character, that series, or that TV show. Find out where else they appeared, the tie-in merchandising, start cross collecting into other venues (film, toys, books, posters, and all memorabilia on the same subject or character.) It's good for you as a collector, it's good for other collectors (it stimulates activity and drives collectibles into the market), and it's good for the industry. But be practical. Don't set up an impossible mission - like the highest graded copy of every #1 issue of all the Golden Age superhero titles - Can't do it, Can't afford it - whoever you are! Don't allow excuses which would let you give up - it's OK to slow down and reset your personal, professional and collecting priorities - but don't give up. Find and focus on something accessible - that you can afford either in quantity or rarity (great if you can do both) - then set stretch objectives - want list items that you can save for. Buy quality - it always pays. You will enjoy it and boast about it and it's a path to refined interests.
Another piece of specific advice I would offer is Think about the Future! If the title or character is being lost to the ages, ebbing from the collective conscience, and the base of collectors is thinning vs. expanding - watch your investments. The basis for resell or refining your collection could be severely restricted. Fewer dealers may stock and carry it if their opportunities for sale face a declining group of collectors, prices stagnate, and the collectors group could be less active with fewer items and stories swapped Thus your ability to retrieve your investment for future collecting activity could be impaired. If you asked whether or not new collectors are being added to the ranks for the Katzenjammer Kids or Kid Eternity - probably not - it's great stuff - just think about it!
Lastly, reverse engineer your decisions - thus never, never, never collect for the money. If that's your motivation it's called investing not collecting. So if you want to collect, love it, love the stuff, buy it - yes it's OK to spend a lot, have great and valuable assets which you may in the future liquidate, but it's a collection first and always.
Scoop: Looking ahead 5 to 10 years what are the biggest challenges that the collecting community faces? What are the greatest opportunities?
PH: The greatest challenge is two-fold: a lack of honesty and second a lack of cohesion (potential for a diluted community if everything is moved to an on-line industry) Technology has improved, like it or not (and I'm in the networking industry) but it can drive unscrupulous individuals who are looking for the quick buck. Whether selling quality repros or restored and repaired items on line leaving out those important details, or misrepresenting origins and rarity, or simply not delivering what was bought - it has the potential to sour collectors from staying in the game. Or it could switch them to newer "collectibles" vs vintage. That's why I say communicate! Find dealers, collectors, and sources you can work with and latch on, stick with them, it's a win-win scenario.
Remember if it feels fishy, smells fishy, it probably is fishy. Amazingly you will know and you will learn. We all make mistakes - don't stress.
Second, the diluted community if everything is moved on line. Collecting is as much art as science but most of all it's an interpersonal sport. People have to get together, see it, compare it, swap it, touch it, talk about it - in person. The thrill of the in person live auction is un-comparable - it has an addictive quality and you can often understand your competition in ways pure on line trading can not provide. On line is an amazing source, an amazing augmentation of the market - not its replacement - so we must keep and invest in shows, shops, auctions, newsletters like Scoop, collectors clubs etc. facilitating the people in the community. Dealers and suppliers can then target acquisitions for individuals if they know you and know your interests, whether you buy plenty on line or not - personal relationships help you source and educate in ways not possible if everything was shifted to an on line industry.
Oddly enough, the greatest opportunity in the next 5-10 years is the flip side of the second challenge I just outlined - the online industry. The advent of the E-bay culture and on-line catalogs and on-line auctions is an amazing opportunity to bring more material to more current, new, and curious collectors than ever before. It can expand the base of collectors, adding new members to the community, replenish those who drop off thus creating new interest across many collecting segments, and injecting new energy. Also this opportunity brings items and objects and new inventory to the market rarely or ever seen before. It sustains the market and provides a virtual real-time market sensing function never before available. It stimulates: interest and prices; action; debate; and most of all insures a future.
Scoop: You have participated in virtually every aspect of the collecting industry: collector, dealer, shop-owner, show promoter, author, auction consultant and professional reference - Can you explain that history -any preference, does it demonstrate your commitment to the market?
PH: Great question, Sinatra said it best - "A puppet, a poet, a pauper, a painter...." Yes I have touched all those aspects of the marketplace - rather substantially - but I would say today first and foremost I am a collector - I've been at it a long time. Sure I was a dealer I started that within my first year as a collector - 1972; a show promoter as early as 1974; a shop owner starting in 1976 (before there was a store and dealer in every town or strip mall in the country); Co-authored collectible and sports collectibles books with my old friend and famous boxing expert Bert Sugar; the Antique Toy Consultant for Christies in the mid '90s; and have been referenced as a source and tapped for opinions and information in many articles, publications and appraisals. Parts of my collections have been displayed from museums to department stores, and I've been featured in a number of TV collecting shows as well a featured in brand new Superman Documentary - "Look Up In The Sky" released at the same time as the new film and done by the same director - Bryan Singer.
Yeah, it's in the blood, I'm committed, it ain't just a hobby anymore - I'm still learning all the time and still get as excited as I did in the "early days."
Scoop: Given your occupation (as a communications company executive) and your credentials, what advice would you give to people who are looking to start collecting.
PH: EXPLORE! Not everything that might be of interest to you, or that you could come to love and collect, may be known to you at this time. Do your best to find one or more things you do know about, and one or more you don't - and discover what really interests you. Then fasten your seat belts, it's a bumpy ride that can go very fast.
I've been at this game a while, do you think that when I started at 13 years old that I really knew what a Zeppelin was, or who Maxfield Parrish was; or that Superman tackled the Axis powers during the War and helped raise funds for War Bonds, that Mickey Mouse had a Horse and a Cow - both with names; that Thor was an Asgard hero on Earth, or that pinback buttons have featured virtually every character of the last 100 years? No - but today items related to all these subjects are among my most fun and prized elements in my collection. They got there because I explored and I did my research. The same can be said for the new collector be it Star Wars, Superman, Mego figures, Big Little Books, or strip art - explore..
It's always a journey, I'm still learning, I still have to do my homework. If I tell you how many books and catalogs I have in my library you'd be amazed.. Find it, explore it, research it, love it and remember never ever do it for the money.
