D.J. MacHale is a writer and director who created Are You Afraid of the Dark, the 1990s TV show about teens who tell each other scary stories around the campfire. As a novelist, he wrote the sci-fi/fantasy young adult book series, Pendragon, and similar genre novels for kids. While he was a guest at Creature Feature Weekend, MacHale took a break from meeting fans to take Scoop behind the scenes of Are You Afraid of the Dark.  

Scoop: Good afternoon, DJ, are you having fun this weekend?
D.J. MacHale (DJM): Absolutely. It’s really fun to see all fans and kindred spirits who like horror. It’s all things spooky and especially people who liked Are Afraid of the Dark, and still like Are Afraid of the Dark. So yes, it’s been great.

Scoop: How did you come up with the concept for Are You Afraid of the Dark?
DJM: It’s a long story, I’ll try to make it short. My partner and I came up with an idea for a direct to video project. We didn’t call it this, but it was essentially bedtime stories for lazy parents, where we get some old actor in a chair sitting in front of a roaring fire with a big book that said “fairy tales” on it. They would read fairy tales, we’d record it, cut it together into a VHS and make $1,000,000 to sell these VHS. We hit the brick wall, and we couldn’t figure out what fairy tales to tell, but they all seem kind of boring.

So my partner, Ned Candle, asked me the key question which changed everything. He said, “What kind of stories did you like when you were a kid?” I said, “I liked scary stories.” So, fairy tales became scary tales. And then it was weird having an old guy reading scary tales to little kids, so we thought well, where do you tell scary stories where it’s not scary. Well, sitting around the campfire. So, the old guy became a bunch of kids around a campfire, telling scary stories.

Then we thought, well, why just tell the story? Why don’t we see the story? That’s when the budget went up, and that’s when it became a TV show. So that’s when we went to Nickelodeon, then sold it.

Scoop: How did you come up with the name of the show?
DJM: The original title was Scary Tales and Nickelodeon did not like that title, which I was very surprised by because I thought it was perfect. Problem is it was too perfect. It’s kind of on the nose. So, they said come up with another title for the show. And so there’s a lot of pressure there, because geez, they may not make the show if I don’t come up with another title. So I had to come up with a title that was more Nickelodeon like and at the time Nickelodeon was having kind of really fun titles like Clarissa Explains It All and Salute Your Shorts and You Can’t Do That On Television. So I’m thinking back to when I was a kid and I always loved scary stories and there was a story – it’s probably the earliest scary story I had ever heard – was a Dr. Seuss story called What Was I Scared Of? and my mother used to read that story to me before I could read. And so I thought, well, that’s kind of a cool title. So I thought what was I scared of? Well I was afraid of clowns, but calling something The Scary Clown Show is too scary. Well, I was also afraid of the dark – Are You Afraid of the Dark? I pitched that to Nickelodeon, they’re like, “Yes, that’s it.” So, it was a variation of a Dr. Seuss title.

Scoop: What are your favorite episodes?
DJM: I have so many that I hate to even say them, but I do have a favorite episode. It’s a good episode, but it’s not necessarily the best. The reason it’s my favorite is because we did it in the second season of the show, beginning of the season. The first season was tough because we were trying to figure out how to make the show and what the show is, trying to get my crew up to speed as to how to make this work, and they thought I was out of my mind with what I wanted to do. Well after you go through an entire season on the learning curve, everyone’s up to speed.

Now we’re into the second season they’d look at the script and go, “Okay, I get it.” How do we make this better? So the episode that is my favorite is called “The Tale of the Midnight Madness.” And it’s because it was the first episode that I felt like we got it. I knew how the show was going to progress and how we could do what we’re capable of. So I have a place in my heart for that episode. It was my favorite because that was the first really solid episode across the board, I think.

Scoop: What was it like working with kids?
DJM: Working with kids is fun. I was saying this to someone that at the end of a season, a lot of shows do blooper reels. And if you ever see a blooper reels it’s because everyone flubs the lines and they forget what they have to do, or are embarrassed or whatever. Kids, don’t forget their lines. Kids have all their gray cells still, so there are no bloopers.

One of the things I would do in auditions… now the kids, their experience ranged, some kids had never done anything before, to kids who have been in a lot of things. Going on their age too, because had a lot of different ages. I would do a thing during auditions with every kid. They would do their audition with whatever part they’re auditioning for, then the last thing I’d have them do is scream test. What I’d say to them, “This is improv. Pretend that this camera is the most hideous, horrifying monster who’s coming after you and is about to attack you and I want to see you be as terrified as you can be. Go over the top, go nuts.”

I did it, not to see how good a screamer they were, because there were very few times we had anyone scream that much in an episode. I did it kind of as a test to see if they’re willing to make a fool of themselves. Because if they’re willing and they weren’t self-conscious in a room full of three people who they never knew before, or if they were self-conscious. What’s going to happen to you on the set and suddenly there are 50 people looking at you and all eyes are on you, and it’s all on your shoulders? So I could tell early on if someone was going to freeze up when the rubber head hit the road. Most kids were great. They’re just so much fun. I wish I had a compilation of all the scream tests that we videotaped. Because kids would just go over the top and that’s the kid I want.

One of the great things about the show, not just for kid actors, but for the adults too is that it was an anthology. They were only there for a week, so there’s no chance of getting bored. There’s no chance getting sick of it. There’s no chance of creating animosity between other actors. It’s just like a week of summer camp. I think every kid had a good time on the show. I’m sure there were probably some that didn’t, but for the most part it was just a week of fun where they worked really hard and had a great time. And I’m really proud of the show. The same for adults, for that matter. You’re in, you’re out, that’s it.

Scoop: Were any of the teens who told the scary tales around the campfire similar to your personality? Did you base any of them off of yourself?
DJM: Not specifically, but I think all of my main characters, especially in my books, there’s some variation of me or some variation of my personality that I will make the key thing for that character. The obvious thing, if there’s any kid that’s most like me, it’s Gary. Because Gary is the organizer of the whole thing. He’s keeping everybody in line. That’s usually where I am. I so, yeah, I guess it would be Gary.

Scoop: Did you or the other writers have any ideas that were determined to be too scary for the kid audience?
DJM: Sort of. I didn’t hire writers, I bought ideas. When writing for the season started, I put the call out to say, “Come pitch me ideas.” So, everyone was freelance, and the writing staff was me. Someone would come to me, pitch me an idea, and if I liked it, if I thought it fit all the criteria for what I needed for that season, I would buy the story and they would write it. Sometimes they were very experienced writers, sometimes people that had never written anything. Ultimately as a showrunner, the job is to make sure the scripts are all ship shape. I had to work harder with the young writers. I’m sure people pitched me ideas and I went, “No, ew, I can’t do that.”

There are three things I think I failed at. One was I wanted to do a take on it any Edgar Allan Poe story, and I couldn’t come up with it. They’re just too dark. Yeah, I couldn’t do a kid-appropriate version of Cask of Amontillado. Really? The Tell-Tale Heart? Come on. Arguably Edgar Allan Poe is too scary to steal from. I couldn’t come up with a good version of Frankenstein. We kind of did one a little later on, but it wasn’t really Frankenstein. The idea, core concept behind Frankenstein… couldn’t make an appropriate version of that. One other failure I turned down, which is a regret I have, but maybe I’m glad I didn’t do it – I always wanted to do a story about mannequins. Because mannequins are scary. And I never came up with the idea to make it work, and maybe it’s good thing I didn’t. Just a couple of years ago, I saw an episode of The Twilight Zone. And of course, he had made a definitive great mannequin episode, so I’m like, oh, there it is. There’s the idea that I couldn’t come up with. Of course, Rod Serling could come up with it.

The only time something was too scary or too far was in the pitching process. So we never got to the script process where we’d go, “Oh that’s too far.”

Scoop: We talked about your favorite episode earlier. Did you have any favorite monsters or ones that you’re particularly proud of?
DJM: Oh lots, actually. In no particular order, I think the “Midnight Madness” episode, the Nosferatu character. I read an article a long time ago in in Famous Monsters of Filmland magazine where that make-up design had only been used like three times. One was in the original Nosferatu, one was in Stephen King’s Salem’s Lot, and then Are You Afraid of the Dark. It’s pretty cool. It’s an interesting pantheon to earn my way into.

The couple that people talk about quite a bit, that are stuck in their brains for good or bad reasons, one is Zebo the clown. I’m afraid of clowns. I had a horrible clown incident when I was a kid. Seriously. So that was my way of kind of purging something that never got purged, I guess.

Probably across the board the most horrifying monster, we did… and I attribute this a lot to Annick Chartier, who’s our makeup artist, who was a young girl who designed all of those monsters. It’s really amazing that she pulled all this out. It was the pool corpse in the “Dead Man’s Float.” That was legit icky. I mean, that was not kid show icky that was legit icky. And I’m proud of that episode because we use – I directed that episode – we use the kind of the classic really successful formulas. For most of the episode, you don’t see the monster. It’s like, “Oh my gosh, what is down there?” It’s like you didn’t see the shark in Jaws. You don’t see the monster, it’s just this unknown thing that’s under the water that’s killing people or terrorizing people. And it isn’t until almost the end of the episode that the thing finally shows up, and when it does, oh boy, it does not disappoint. I would say from a make-up or presentation point of view, that pool zombie is right up there.

Scoop: “Dead Man’s Float” is my favorite episode. It’s very scary. What’s it like meeting adult fans who watched the show when they were kids?
DJM: It makes me feel old. (laughs) I wish that anyone could have this kind of experience that you do something that decades later, people still appreciate and still think highly of it, and still watch and still find anew. It’s really fun and especially when I come to a convention like this. You meet people who suddenly become the kids they were back 30 years ago. And they say, Oh my gosh it kept me up late at night.” It’s so much fun and I love it. For someone to say they love what you did. It doesn’t get better than that.

It is a little bit of a double edged sword – and it doesn’t happen in person – people are too nice in person... but think about this when you’re making a TV show, you’re making hundreds of decisions every day. If you factor in the writing, you’re making thousands of decisions every day. So you don’t think at the time that a decision you make on the spur of the moment is going to be criticized in a podcast 30 years later. It's like “Oh my gosh, it was a blue shirt. It should have been the red shirt.” But oftentimes with podcasts or whatever, it’s done in fun. They’re not like, “This show is terrible because they used the red shirt,” or whatever it happens to be. But I find myself answering for decisions I made decades ago. Having to justify decisions I made, that’s kind of a weird thing, but I’m just happy because that means people are talking about it, so that’s a good thing.

Scoop: In addition to your work in TV, you’ve also written several books, like Pendragon, tell me about your book series.
DJM: Oh boy I have written about 25 books. I write adventure stories. I write mysteries. I write things I like. I love ghost stories, mysteries, and adventure. My most popular book series is called the Pendragon: Journal of an Adventure Through Time and Space. If I die tomorrow, and I’m not planning on it, there will be two things on my tombstone: Are You Afraid of The Dark and Pendragon. And I’m okay with that. That’s pretty cool. Hopefully there will be more things. Are You Afraid of the Dark was my 1990s era, Pendragons my 2000s era. So it’s really fun that that my writing has traversed a lot of people and time.

A kind of funny and sobering thing happened not that long ago. I got used to adults coming up to me to say “I love Are You Afraid of the Dark, I grew up with Are You Afraid of the Dark.” I’m looking at them like they’re my age and they’re not. (laughs) So it took a while to get used to that, but I appreciate it. I love it. Then a couple years ago I was visiting a school and a teacher came up to me, and she was in tears. She said, “I’m such a fan of your work.” I’m like, “Oh yeah, Are You Afraid of the Dark,” and she’s said, “No, no, Pendragon.” (mimics surprise) Oh no, I’ve jumped ahead 20 years here yet again! Want to know what generation I’m in?

I also love when kids come to me with books. There was a young boy who came up yesterday, he was 7, maybe. If there’s any slight criticism for people talking about, Are You Afraid of The Dark is that they seem to feel that the judge of a good episode is how scary it was. I get that, and it’s also the more memorable episodes are ones where there’s an iconic monster. The pool monster, Zebo, Ghastly Grinner, right? But, Are You Afraid of The Dark was more than that. It was more Twilight Zone, they’re more thoughtful stories, more heart wrenching stories. And there’s one episode that I directed it, it’s one of my favorite episodes, because for me it was quintessential Twilight Zone.

No one talks about that. It’s like it never happened. But this little boy [that came up yesterday], that was his favorite episode. I said “Thank you so much.” It’s called the “Tale of Train Magic.” Now maybe it was his favorite episode because he likes trains. That’s possible too. But, there was no bogeyman in it. There was a bad guy in it that was an elderly conductor of the train, so there’s no iconic image to stick in your brain to remember. But I thought it was such a good story written by a guy named Jerry Wexler. It was a thought provoking story about a kid going through a tough time because he lost his father and so those are all the great elements. And then he came in danger, and he had conflict with his brother, who eventually came along and helped him and saved him from crashing the train. All these great things, there was no boogeyman, so people don’t remember, remember.

Scoop: I think another good episode like that is “The Shiny Red Bicycle” about the boy who sees his friend’s ghost and then tries to save his other brother.
DJM: Even better example! Even better example. Talk about a heartfelt story about a guy who feels like he’s being haunted by the memory of his friend who died that he felt somewhat responsible for. That’s not light material. That’s serious material. He’s going out of his mind seeing the ghost of his friend, and he’s not sure if he’s going out of his mind, if it’s guilt feelings, his parents dismiss him and try to put him in therapy. But he’s really seeing the ghost of his friend who’s trying to protect his brother. So it is like quintessential Twilight Zone-Are Afraid of The Dark. So those are the episodes that are some of my favorites, just from a creative point of view. Because everyone wants to talk about the Ghastly Grinner everyone wants to talk about Zebo and the vampire from “Night Shift” and they’re right. Those are all great stories but we also did a lot of other things too.

Scoop: It was really nice talking to you. I really appreciate you taking time to do the interview.
DJM: It was my pleasure. I talked about Are You Afraid of the Dark more today than I did when I was making it. And I love doing it! So thank you for asking me the questions.